No deal Brexit

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Lucylastic
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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby Lucylastic » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:34 pm

Winston Smith wrote:
Lucylastic wrote:Wargaming in the 70s suggested that without the Americans we would still have prevailed but Eastern Europe would have begun at Paris.


:shock:

Is there a link to that wargame? I am curious.


Not one that I can readily point to. I just recall that in the 70s a bunch of surviving German officers came over and war gamed against us using their actual plans and strategy and lost.
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Lucylastic
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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby Lucylastic » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:36 pm

Winston Smith wrote:Would we have had the manpower for D Day?


An Invasion across the channel would not have been the only option. We could have continued to reduce their industrial capacity from the air.
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coolman
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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby coolman » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:38 pm

maybe this? The closest thing I can find, anyway.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati ... n_(wargame)
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Winston Smith
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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby Winston Smith » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:41 pm

coolman wrote:maybe this? The closest thing I can find, anyway.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati ... n_(wargame)


Yes. I just read this. But that was a wargame based on an attempted invasion of Britain in September 1940. The result of the game was that Germany failed and had catastrophic casualties and loss of ships (Britain also suffered huge losses). But the war would have continued despite this outcome.
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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby coolman » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:44 pm

Yes, I was thinking maybe Lucy „misremembered „. The 70‘s was a long time ago. :whistle:
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Chudleigh
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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby Chudleigh » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:52 pm

Winston Smith wrote:
Lucylastic wrote:People tend to overlook the air war. We were highly successful there and the Luftwaffe was on its last legs by 1943. Bomber command suffered high losses but only seven men at a time while thousands more remained safe from combat itself back at the airfields. We were never under serious threat of invasion, the channel was too much of a reach for Germany with their limited navy. Wargaming in the 70s suggested that without the Americans we would still have prevailed but Eastern Europe would have begun at Paris.


Would we have had the manpower for D Day?


No.

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Chudleigh
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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby Chudleigh » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:01 pm

Lucylastic wrote:
Chudleigh wrote:
On the contrary, I don’t believe that the great British public is anywhere near as sophisticated as you seem to believe them to be. I also believe that this “Brexit “ fiasco has set back European relations decades. The typical man in the street will not be harbouring pro European sentiments now, instead believing that our erstwhile eu chums are intent on breaking this country’s economy out of revenge.


Oh, doubtless there are many people we instinctively dislike or mistrust as a nation, but I do not think Germans are among them. Before cheap air travel, Germany was a very popular holiday destination.


This, though, is nothing to do with “instinctive” dislike. We are talking about people who have probably never travelled and more importantly have have imbibed their dislike and distrust of all things European, especially German , via their mothers milk. There are millions of them, unemployed, unemployable, low wage, retired. Essentially more likely social class IV and V. I agree that anyone who likes going to a Germany on holidays is unlikely to be anti German. I don’t like Düsseldorf.

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Lucylastic
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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby Lucylastic » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:31 pm

coolman wrote:Yes, I was thinking maybe Lucy „misremembered „. The 70‘s was a long time ago. :whistle:


I was born in 1979. Doesn't mean I don't know who the Beatles are.
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Lucylastic
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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby Lucylastic » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:55 pm

Winston Smith wrote:
coolman wrote:maybe this? The closest thing I can find, anyway.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati ... n_(wargame)


Yes. I just read this. But that was a wargame based on an attempted invasion of Britain in September 1940. The result of the game was that Germany failed and had catastrophic casualties and loss of ships (Britain also suffered huge losses). But the war would have continued despite this outcome.


That is a good find, possibly related to the exercises I had heard about. I think my Dad probably told me about them. I see a flaw in the ground rules though. They assume we would have had little prior knowledge of the moment of the invasion where we would probably have had plenty. We would have been made aware of the assembly of troops and barges by resistance members and we would have intercepted growing radio communications (One of the ways we knew the Luftwaffe was coming in the Battle of Britain was we could hear them testing their radios in the morning). Even if they were encrypted we would have been sufficiently forewarned. The Royal Navy would have almost certainly have had time to sail from Scapa Flow, which is where I believe they were waiting. The towed barges would have had little chance, the wake of even a small vessel storming past at speed would have sunk them. Incidentally, the importance of the RAF's victory in the Battle of Britain is probably overstated. It was next to impossible to attack a small vessel from the air and they would have played a minor role. Had the Germans succeeded in landing they would have been cut off by the Royal Navy. There was only 24 hours worth of petrol in the south of England at any time in order to starve an invading army.
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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby mx6 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:12 pm

Lucylastic wrote:
coolman wrote:Yes, I was thinking maybe Lucy „misremembered „. The 70‘s was a long time ago. :whistle:


I was born in 1979. Doesn't mean I don't know who the Beatles are.


God you're young!

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Chudleigh
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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby Chudleigh » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:27 am

mx6 wrote:
Lucylastic wrote:
coolman wrote:Yes, I was thinking maybe Lucy „misremembered „. The 70‘s was a long time ago. :whistle:


I was born in 1979. Doesn't mean I don't know who the Beatles are.


God you're young!


As are you... don’t knock it.

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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby mx6 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:26 am

Chudleigh wrote:
mx6 wrote:
Lucylastic wrote:
coolman wrote:Yes, I was thinking maybe Lucy „misremembered „. The 70‘s was a long time ago. :whistle:


I was born in 1979. Doesn't mean I don't know who the Beatles are.


God you're young!


As are you... don’t knock it.


Wish I was. Everything slows down a bit as you age. The spirit is willing, but the flesh takes a little more encouragement. :)

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coolman
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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby coolman » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:23 am

Going off topic here, but I‘m 9 years older than Lucy, so a lot closer to 50 than I‘d like to be.

Somehow I don‘t feel like I‘m that old. I’m almost certainly way over the halfway point in life, but I‘m not going to slow down just yet. I‘m still hyperactive, still listen to head-banging music, and still party (at least up until a recent turn of events) with the best of them.

It seems like every year I think, “ok. Now I’m at my peak, the prime of my life.”
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Chudleigh
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Re: No deal Brexit

Postby Chudleigh » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:07 pm

mx6 wrote:
Chudleigh wrote:
mx6 wrote:
Lucylastic wrote:
coolman wrote:Yes, I was thinking maybe Lucy „misremembered „. The 70‘s was a long time ago. :whistle:


I was born in 1979. Doesn't mean I don't know who the Beatles are.


God you're young!


As are you... don’t knock it.


Wish I was. Everything slows down a bit as you age. The spirit is willing, but the flesh takes a little more encouragement. :)


Oh you.............!


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